Excellent journalism. Your visit to Israel and your discussions with various Israelis is resulting in the kind of stories that are not common enough - even here on Substack. I
Incredibly complex and nuanced issues that keep the Israeli society awake - and, Pat, you take a sound and honest approach to try and unpack it all. In the meantime, the Globe and Mail, NYT, WAPO, and BBC are trying to reduce this to a binary question of a victim and an aggressor. And even then, they get the two sides wrong by gobbling up terrorist propaganda!
Gil “believes” both sides “just want to live in peace.” We hear this from Israelis all the time so there is evidence for this sentiment. Where is the evidence that Gazans desire this? As released hostages can attest, not a single civilian showed them even a hint of kindness or sympathy, even young children. It’s hard to admit but the death cult ideology of Islamism has infected every generation of Gazans. “Just wanting to live in peace” is not currently on their agenda.
Israel has a culture that generally deeply values peace, normalcy and the sanctity of life. I do believe that this is generally true for most human beings, but when an evil regime such as Hamas comes to power, it becomes impossible to know what people in Gaza really think (those who criticize Hamas and express the desire to live peacefully with Israel are risking their lives). In this reality, peace is possible only through strength. In other words, those who have the fantasy that Israel is a temporary reality cannot be allowed to believe that they will fulfill the fantasy of destroying Israel. The great tragedy of October 7 is that due to a combination of factors (corruption, institutional dysfunction, the illusion of normalcy, the refusal to accept that evil really exists) Israel, for a few hours, fulfilled the fantasies of its haters and showed them what Israel looks like without the IDF to defend it (the IDF was practically absent during the massacre of October 7). And this fantasy fulfillment has unleashed a horrible wave of antisemitism and has resulted in a much more terrible war than the smaller one that could have taken place if Israel never allowed Hamas to pursue its fantasies (falsely believing that money would prevent them from attacking Israel). Antisemitism is an addiction that developed during the hundreds of years in which the IDF did not exist. When the IDF tragically "did not exist" for a few hours on October 7, a relapse of the antisemitic addiction was unleashed. The IDF can never allow itself to behave through organizational dysfunction as if it does not exist. I hope very much that deterrence will be enough to enable the Palestinians to live in peace and prosperity side by side with Israel and that we can avoid active wars while at the same time making it clear that Israel is not a temporary reality.
Agreed. The IDF went missing. Indeed, Israel went missing in the months leading up to October 7. The country was roiled by the proposed judicial reforms. The anti-reformers were wrongheaded, and hysterical. It reached pathological levels with Ron Huldai, Lapid, and Ehud Barak counselling civil disobedience and even blood on the streets. Hate-filled angry protests, which sadly often bore more than a passing resemblance to the anti-Zionist protests we see in other countries, broadcast to the world and to our enemies that there were deep divisions and fractures in the country. Reservists shockingly refused to report to duty. Then add to that toxic dump a widely held view by Israel’s allies, as well as many within, that there was an Arab spring in Gaza and that Hamas was moderating. Israel’s vulnerabilities were writ large. I hold many in Israel accountable for leaving the door unlocked and signalling no one was at home. And what makes me nuts is that people like Gil still don’t get it and persist in the delusion that there is a recipe for peace with a people who want him dead.
Yes, Israel signaled its vulnerability in the period leading up to October 7. Given the determination of its enemies to destroy it, Israel cannot accommodate significant corruption and organizational dysfunction. This is ultimately true for any society, but in Israel the results were disastrous. Israel must seriously study how October 7 was allowed to happen and apply the lessons.
“When the Palestinians and the broader Arab world are willing to live in peace, there will be peace. They are the only ones who can make peace because they are the only ones who are making war.”
“The root of this conflict is Palestinian and Arab/Muslim intransigence, the refusal to tolerate so much as the idea of Jewish national self-determination. This is why there is a conflict.”
It seems this sadly deluded naive peacenik did not do his reading before the interview….
Gil “believes” both sides “just want to live in peace.” We hear this from Israelis all the time so there is evidence for this sentiment. Where is the evidence that Gazans desire this? As released hostages can attest, not a single civilian showed them even a hint of kindness or sympathy, even young children. It’s hard to admit but the death cult ideology of Islamism has infected every generation of Gazans. “Just wanting to live in peace” is not currently on their agenda.
I appreciate Gil. I agree with his vision. I agree with his criticism of Ben Gvir. And I feel awful saying this to someone who has obviously been affected by October 7 much more than I have, and has another relative who was fortunately freed who probably has much insight on the situation.
But the onus here can't be on Israel or Israelis alone. Of course a compromise (2SS) makes the most sense, but you can't compromise with yourself. In other conflict that actually ended, as far as I know, what happened was: somebody admitted defeat, and the party that won didn't have to beg the party that lost to agree to return to the pre-war status quo in exchange for peace (to be met with refusal). This basically means that starting a war and losing costs nothing (to the people in power, that is), while the party that wins is running to stay in the same place.
I wonder, if Israel loses territory in a conflict, will anybody insist that it gets to try again and again and again? Of course not.
So, basically... If we're playing a positive sum game, awesome. But we aren't. We're playing a zero sum game, and Israel didn't make it zero sum. And if this the case, and the end result is a one state solution called Israel... Well, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Mind you, I also think Israel lost this war a long time ago, and that the current government can't defeat Hamas and doesn't necessarily truly want to, and that getting the hostages back is the only thing we can actually achieve. Better this loss than Gaza's stunning victory.
Excellent journalism. Your visit to Israel and your discussions with various Israelis is resulting in the kind of stories that are not common enough - even here on Substack. I
look forward to more opinions from the homeland.
Incredibly complex and nuanced issues that keep the Israeli society awake - and, Pat, you take a sound and honest approach to try and unpack it all. In the meantime, the Globe and Mail, NYT, WAPO, and BBC are trying to reduce this to a binary question of a victim and an aggressor. And even then, they get the two sides wrong by gobbling up terrorist propaganda!
Gil “believes” both sides “just want to live in peace.” We hear this from Israelis all the time so there is evidence for this sentiment. Where is the evidence that Gazans desire this? As released hostages can attest, not a single civilian showed them even a hint of kindness or sympathy, even young children. It’s hard to admit but the death cult ideology of Islamism has infected every generation of Gazans. “Just wanting to live in peace” is not currently on their agenda.
Israel has a culture that generally deeply values peace, normalcy and the sanctity of life. I do believe that this is generally true for most human beings, but when an evil regime such as Hamas comes to power, it becomes impossible to know what people in Gaza really think (those who criticize Hamas and express the desire to live peacefully with Israel are risking their lives). In this reality, peace is possible only through strength. In other words, those who have the fantasy that Israel is a temporary reality cannot be allowed to believe that they will fulfill the fantasy of destroying Israel. The great tragedy of October 7 is that due to a combination of factors (corruption, institutional dysfunction, the illusion of normalcy, the refusal to accept that evil really exists) Israel, for a few hours, fulfilled the fantasies of its haters and showed them what Israel looks like without the IDF to defend it (the IDF was practically absent during the massacre of October 7). And this fantasy fulfillment has unleashed a horrible wave of antisemitism and has resulted in a much more terrible war than the smaller one that could have taken place if Israel never allowed Hamas to pursue its fantasies (falsely believing that money would prevent them from attacking Israel). Antisemitism is an addiction that developed during the hundreds of years in which the IDF did not exist. When the IDF tragically "did not exist" for a few hours on October 7, a relapse of the antisemitic addiction was unleashed. The IDF can never allow itself to behave through organizational dysfunction as if it does not exist. I hope very much that deterrence will be enough to enable the Palestinians to live in peace and prosperity side by side with Israel and that we can avoid active wars while at the same time making it clear that Israel is not a temporary reality.
Agreed. The IDF went missing. Indeed, Israel went missing in the months leading up to October 7. The country was roiled by the proposed judicial reforms. The anti-reformers were wrongheaded, and hysterical. It reached pathological levels with Ron Huldai, Lapid, and Ehud Barak counselling civil disobedience and even blood on the streets. Hate-filled angry protests, which sadly often bore more than a passing resemblance to the anti-Zionist protests we see in other countries, broadcast to the world and to our enemies that there were deep divisions and fractures in the country. Reservists shockingly refused to report to duty. Then add to that toxic dump a widely held view by Israel’s allies, as well as many within, that there was an Arab spring in Gaza and that Hamas was moderating. Israel’s vulnerabilities were writ large. I hold many in Israel accountable for leaving the door unlocked and signalling no one was at home. And what makes me nuts is that people like Gil still don’t get it and persist in the delusion that there is a recipe for peace with a people who want him dead.
Yes, Israel signaled its vulnerability in the period leading up to October 7. Given the determination of its enemies to destroy it, Israel cannot accommodate significant corruption and organizational dysfunction. This is ultimately true for any society, but in Israel the results were disastrous. Israel must seriously study how October 7 was allowed to happen and apply the lessons.
Pat Johnson:
“When the Palestinians and the broader Arab world are willing to live in peace, there will be peace. They are the only ones who can make peace because they are the only ones who are making war.”
“The root of this conflict is Palestinian and Arab/Muslim intransigence, the refusal to tolerate so much as the idea of Jewish national self-determination. This is why there is a conflict.”
It seems this sadly deluded naive peacenik did not do his reading before the interview….
Gil “believes” both sides “just want to live in peace.” We hear this from Israelis all the time so there is evidence for this sentiment. Where is the evidence that Gazans desire this? As released hostages can attest, not a single civilian showed them even a hint of kindness or sympathy, even young children. It’s hard to admit but the death cult ideology of Islamism has infected every generation of Gazans. “Just wanting to live in peace” is not currently on their agenda.
I appreciate Gil. I agree with his vision. I agree with his criticism of Ben Gvir. And I feel awful saying this to someone who has obviously been affected by October 7 much more than I have, and has another relative who was fortunately freed who probably has much insight on the situation.
But the onus here can't be on Israel or Israelis alone. Of course a compromise (2SS) makes the most sense, but you can't compromise with yourself. In other conflict that actually ended, as far as I know, what happened was: somebody admitted defeat, and the party that won didn't have to beg the party that lost to agree to return to the pre-war status quo in exchange for peace (to be met with refusal). This basically means that starting a war and losing costs nothing (to the people in power, that is), while the party that wins is running to stay in the same place.
I wonder, if Israel loses territory in a conflict, will anybody insist that it gets to try again and again and again? Of course not.
So, basically... If we're playing a positive sum game, awesome. But we aren't. We're playing a zero sum game, and Israel didn't make it zero sum. And if this the case, and the end result is a one state solution called Israel... Well, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Mind you, I also think Israel lost this war a long time ago, and that the current government can't defeat Hamas and doesn't necessarily truly want to, and that getting the hostages back is the only thing we can actually achieve. Better this loss than Gaza's stunning victory.