Absolutely outstanding. Reading this turned my day from crappy to happy. This is what the world needs. Facts, common sense and facing reality. Israel exists that is reality. Suck it up shut up and leave the Jews alone - Israelis bite, so stay away from the sharp end.
You did such a good job of summing up the situation. Concise, articulate, accessible, and of course you have more credibility because you're not Jewish. I'm saving this off in case I need to show it to haters.
Most people do not realize the deep religious roots of the "Arab / Israeli" problem. Probably because the only way to solve the religious part of the puzzle is to have Islam reform itself into a modern, pacificist religion - which is clearly not going to happen. Admitting this is very difficult for those who want there to be peace in the middle east, and the rest of the world, since it means that the problem, at least for now, is intractable. There have been some silver linings such as the Abraham Accords and the other Peace treaties between Egypt and Jordan, and the possibility of an agreement with Saudi Arabia, but for now, it is the season of war.
Pat, what you are saying reinforces the argument of Einat Wilf and her cowriter in The War of Return. The hatred of Jews and refusal to accept Israel is the root of entire issue. It’s not about land, but about no Jews anywhere.
I recommend it whenever possible. And also Bari Weiss’ book, How to Fight Antisemitism. It was written a few years ago, but is a fabulous analysis of the evolution of antisemitism and how to combat it, although after Oct 7, she might have some further thoughts.
That's because the atheist out agnostic left feel like racists when they criticize Islam, because Islam is inferior to them. But Israelis are considered superior so they are criticized.
The greatest example that Jewish Israelis don’t want to kill their neighbors is the Druze. Of course there’s also Arab Muslim Israelis who they haven’t killed the was Jews in “Palestine” or Syria or Lebanon or Iraq have been, but the Druze are a real clear case. I’d love an article about the Druze.
Thank you for your great way of putting things as they are!
What gits my goat is that others think they "know the rules" and insist Israel has broken 'em all in declarin' themselves a state (with help from anti-semites Lords Milner & Balfour!--hey who wouldn't take help where ya kin git it?)-- But help er not, to this orery "truth" 'bout joos not bein' cricket--I ask, what rules? Where?
Did Italy or Great Britain (whatevah) have a printed set of rules as ta how a nation is established and ONLY if they play "accorin' ta Holyle" are they "allowed" to be recognized (by the UN, what?)?! I never sawr such a book that said you "cannot shant mustn't" establish a state for a "tribe" a "people" a "religion" a "heritage"-- sounds like the haters wrote that book in retrospect if it does exist--frankly-I'd laff at it an' put it out on the bargain bin fer a measely $1 'cept they are CERTAIN there are rules to be kept! an' I hold back the laffs cuz, well, they really DO want Israel to sink inta the Red Sea us all chews with it!
I dare ask, what rule book did all the Christian crusaders go by when they took over lands galore? (I'm sure they had some good rules of decorum there blood Hell not!) When such boundaries were "civilly" established who took out a leeetle book an' called in a surveyor to x-marks-the-spot? Who got ta spell 'em out?--Da Pope? The Holy Roman Emperor? The best orator available from Central Casting? to "grant permission" eloquently to all but Israel? (Could Douglas Murray be hired fer the job or is it too late?)
It's "icin' on the cake" that the torah offers ample evidence that a certain people of the Levant git ta live there. "Chosen" may be bad PR, I say "designated" but either way, it IS in scripture wuther ya take it literally or not! (Many of the haters diss-miss the old testy-mint anyway... it's convenient, no? Diss-Missin' the document that props up the idea that the descendants of Abraham have not just promises to keep but a land too, no?)
So, in his-story class I missed out on the lesson showin' us them rules... guess they hid 'em from us chews? Scratchin' my head... I got it--they taught the rules on the High Holy Days when us joos were absent from skool--that must'a been it! (lol)
“The weird part is that, when it comes to Israel, the idea of a God-given right is mocked and derided, but a God-given right by Muslims to the same land suddenly evokes a reverence for religious deference.”
Not this gentile atheist Pat! I simply cannot cut these religious absolutists, from any faith, and slack. It’s all bullshit and causes huge problems.
Imagine if you carried on believing in Santa and the tooth fairy into adulthood. And even killed and started wars over it.
In the u.s.,the electoral college came about to appease southern states who wanted to continue to hold slaves. Then those states lost the civil war but launched their romantic Lost Cause propaganda so kinda not really.
Then came the president who revised and still refuses to admit an election as does his running mate who is ready to step into shoes as the national heritage foundation wishes he would, who said you can’t stop time?
Ian's opening comment sentence points to the origin of ownership for lands of "Palestine. The Torah is clear that this land was given to the descendants of Isaac and that give was" forever". Hashem is the giver and since it's His creation, and this give was in perpetuity.
Arabs (there is no such thing as a "Palestinian - they're simply Arabs) are the group attempting override Hashem's express will. Won't go well, as we see. Interestingly, the Arab population is descended from Isaac's half brother Ishmael, who received separate promises for him and his descendants. Looks like they got the oil, but Israel got Hashem. All in the Torah.
Interestingly, Israel's national symbol is called the Star of David. Reminding us that David was a man "after God's own heart". Under the reign of his son Solomon, the borders of Israel stretched from the Euphrates to the Nile. All in the Torah.
Absolutely outstanding. Reading this turned my day from crappy to happy. This is what the world needs. Facts, common sense and facing reality. Israel exists that is reality. Suck it up shut up and leave the Jews alone - Israelis bite, so stay away from the sharp end.
Thanks Sylvan! Messages like yours are why I write!
You did such a good job of summing up the situation. Concise, articulate, accessible, and of course you have more credibility because you're not Jewish. I'm saving this off in case I need to show it to haters.
I’m a few days late to this post but Pat, this is one of your best. Full of facts, wit and slightly stroppy ooomph 😃. Thank you 🙏 🌟.
Another home run! I echo other people thanking you for your moral clarity. I wish more people would listen.
Thank you Suzanne! All we can do is keep howling it!
Excellent Pat....thank you.
Most people do not realize the deep religious roots of the "Arab / Israeli" problem. Probably because the only way to solve the religious part of the puzzle is to have Islam reform itself into a modern, pacificist religion - which is clearly not going to happen. Admitting this is very difficult for those who want there to be peace in the middle east, and the rest of the world, since it means that the problem, at least for now, is intractable. There have been some silver linings such as the Abraham Accords and the other Peace treaties between Egypt and Jordan, and the possibility of an agreement with Saudi Arabia, but for now, it is the season of war.
Pat, what you are saying reinforces the argument of Einat Wilf and her cowriter in The War of Return. The hatred of Jews and refusal to accept Israel is the root of entire issue. It’s not about land, but about no Jews anywhere.
Not a surprise! The book is brilliant and everyone should read it!
I recommend it whenever possible. And also Bari Weiss’ book, How to Fight Antisemitism. It was written a few years ago, but is a fabulous analysis of the evolution of antisemitism and how to combat it, although after Oct 7, she might have some further thoughts.
That's because the atheist out agnostic left feel like racists when they criticize Islam, because Islam is inferior to them. But Israelis are considered superior so they are criticized.
agree. the bigotry of low expectations
The greatest example that Jewish Israelis don’t want to kill their neighbors is the Druze. Of course there’s also Arab Muslim Israelis who they haven’t killed the was Jews in “Palestine” or Syria or Lebanon or Iraq have been, but the Druze are a real clear case. I’d love an article about the Druze.
Thank you for your great way of putting things as they are!
What gits my goat is that others think they "know the rules" and insist Israel has broken 'em all in declarin' themselves a state (with help from anti-semites Lords Milner & Balfour!--hey who wouldn't take help where ya kin git it?)-- But help er not, to this orery "truth" 'bout joos not bein' cricket--I ask, what rules? Where?
Did Italy or Great Britain (whatevah) have a printed set of rules as ta how a nation is established and ONLY if they play "accorin' ta Holyle" are they "allowed" to be recognized (by the UN, what?)?! I never sawr such a book that said you "cannot shant mustn't" establish a state for a "tribe" a "people" a "religion" a "heritage"-- sounds like the haters wrote that book in retrospect if it does exist--frankly-I'd laff at it an' put it out on the bargain bin fer a measely $1 'cept they are CERTAIN there are rules to be kept! an' I hold back the laffs cuz, well, they really DO want Israel to sink inta the Red Sea us all chews with it!
I dare ask, what rule book did all the Christian crusaders go by when they took over lands galore? (I'm sure they had some good rules of decorum there blood Hell not!) When such boundaries were "civilly" established who took out a leeetle book an' called in a surveyor to x-marks-the-spot? Who got ta spell 'em out?--Da Pope? The Holy Roman Emperor? The best orator available from Central Casting? to "grant permission" eloquently to all but Israel? (Could Douglas Murray be hired fer the job or is it too late?)
It's "icin' on the cake" that the torah offers ample evidence that a certain people of the Levant git ta live there. "Chosen" may be bad PR, I say "designated" but either way, it IS in scripture wuther ya take it literally or not! (Many of the haters diss-miss the old testy-mint anyway... it's convenient, no? Diss-Missin' the document that props up the idea that the descendants of Abraham have not just promises to keep but a land too, no?)
So, in his-story class I missed out on the lesson showin' us them rules... guess they hid 'em from us chews? Scratchin' my head... I got it--they taught the rules on the High Holy Days when us joos were absent from skool--that must'a been it! (lol)
Good post!
“The weird part is that, when it comes to Israel, the idea of a God-given right is mocked and derided, but a God-given right by Muslims to the same land suddenly evokes a reverence for religious deference.”
Not this gentile atheist Pat! I simply cannot cut these religious absolutists, from any faith, and slack. It’s all bullshit and causes huge problems.
Imagine if you carried on believing in Santa and the tooth fairy into adulthood. And even killed and started wars over it.
Ha ha. Imagine that.
Refused and still refuses
In the u.s.,the electoral college came about to appease southern states who wanted to continue to hold slaves. Then those states lost the civil war but launched their romantic Lost Cause propaganda so kinda not really.
Then came the president who revised and still refuses to admit an election as does his running mate who is ready to step into shoes as the national heritage foundation wishes he would, who said you can’t stop time?
Ian's opening comment sentence points to the origin of ownership for lands of "Palestine. The Torah is clear that this land was given to the descendants of Isaac and that give was" forever". Hashem is the giver and since it's His creation, and this give was in perpetuity.
Arabs (there is no such thing as a "Palestinian - they're simply Arabs) are the group attempting override Hashem's express will. Won't go well, as we see. Interestingly, the Arab population is descended from Isaac's half brother Ishmael, who received separate promises for him and his descendants. Looks like they got the oil, but Israel got Hashem. All in the Torah.
Interestingly, Israel's national symbol is called the Star of David. Reminding us that David was a man "after God's own heart". Under the reign of his son Solomon, the borders of Israel stretched from the Euphrates to the Nile. All in the Torah.