I'd also like to ask these people about which other countries they have a firm opinion? Which ones do they "support" or not support? Have they always supported China? Greece? Burundi? I find it odd and telling just in the "I always supported Israel, but now I don't" when that's a not sentence that would even be uttered about any other of 194 countries in the world. They just ARE, we don't generally discuss or even think about if we support them or not.
But to your point about your former friends suddenly claiming to have an opinion, I suspect they're just making sure they check the correct "I'm a good person" box for their virtue signaling.
You are right AGAIN. Can you imagine someone declaring "I don't support Finland" or "I don't approve of Indonesia"? I should have made this case. May I steal your idea for future fodder?
Absolutely! I’d be honored. It continues to amaze me how little people see themselves or hear what they’re saying as they continue to obsess over Israel, a place they’ve never been and know nothing about in reality.
It's a variant of "I can't be antisemitic because this As A Jew has said this totally antisemitic thing so it must be true and to believe it can't possibly be antisemitic because a Jew said it." Between that and "I used to be pro-Israel but now I can't possibly be," I've lost all my old friends going back several decades.
Oh I am so sorry this has happened to you. It’s one of the reasons I started looking on Substack for non-Jews who are sympathetic. Pat is more than sympathetic. He has thought about these issues so deeply that I am not only comforted by his extraordinary writing, but I gain a clearer and sharper view of many issues I had not even fully understood.
Obama put the Progressive Seal of Approval on this disingenuous ploy when his parting gesture as president was the abstain from the usual American position on UN 2334, casting Jews as "occupiers" of JERUSALEM, ffs. That was one of those "the veil drops" moments for me. Now, I hear this all the time. It goes right back to 1967, as the brilliant 2nd gen feminist and fierce Zionist Phyllis Chesler describes. As soon as Israel was a victor in battle and gained some legitimate ground, right when the Soviet propaganda about "poor indigenous Palestinians" was being concocted to con Western left/liberals, David started being misrepresented as Goliath (see the great book by Joshua Muravchik on that development). Since antisemitism is always a punching down portrayed by its perpetrators as a punching up, Israel simply cannot defend itself, in these people's eyes, without being flipped easily into the "aggressor". It's vile.
I’ve lost a friend of 40 years over exactly this kind of discussion, Pat. I’m trying to keep a friendship of 40 years alive with another friend who delights in repeating misinformation about Israel. I’m trying to have some patience because she was widowed a year ago, and I know she needs desperately to fit in with her peers, who have poorly informed views. I’m trying to give her more time to have compassion for her insecurity after her loss and to see if we can continue a friendship that we started in college. My godson this morning sent me a text which said “the effort to cleanse Palestinians from greater Israel has caused immense human suffering.”
It rather sounds like you have a great deal more compassion than she does. It is kind of you to impute ignorance rathe rthan ill-will, which is a line I struggle to maintain.
Thank you for your compassion, which adds light to the world. These people are turning away from a great lie that cannot be rationalized: those who seek to destroy Israel play the victim and speak in the name of human rights the moment that their passionate pursuit of genocidal war fails.
It's easier for people to adopt the broad strokes. One of my long term friends has it so backwards. She claims to just deeeeeply care about the Palestinian people, "and the Jews," do that's why it's alllll Netanyahu's fault.
I asked her if she knew Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 as part of a land for peace bid and she nearly shoved her fingers in her ears and said "We don't need to get lost in all the details to know right from wrong."
Makes me mad. The flippant considerations people try to toss out..."I've always supported Israel" is BS. Most people in Canada don't know much about this conflict.
Ah yes. Context is irrelevant. This is the defence of the critics. All they see are the TikTok memes and they have no concept of why this is happening. If we do not get to the root of the problem (Palestinian and Arab intransigence and, well, antisemitism) we will never resolve this conflict. If we start now, we might have peace in two generations. But we (they) have not begun that period of reconciliation.
I think you ard absolutely right about the ignorance of most Canadians regarding Israel's history and ongoing military struggles. Consequently, we do not have enough knowledge or information to develop a well-informed opinion about Mr. Netanyahu or Israeli military defence or offense. Unfortunately, ignorance seldom stops most people from forming or expressing an opinion.
You are such an astute observer of reality and of hypocrisy. The rhetorical trope that you have correctly identified exists because one cannot be openly antisemitic in polite society. In many ways, this is similar to people in Nazi Germany saying, I do not have anything personal against the Jews, but science has shown that Jewish blood is polluting the common good. These are people who want to enjoy the emotional benefits of antisemitism while wearing the mask of "objectivity."
Of all the very important issues facing Israel right now, trying to psychoanalyze why some people preface their criticism of Israel with a statement of previous support is...not even on the list. Equally concerning is the broad generalization that everyone who does this is antisemitic. I suppose this might make for a casual one or two minute conversation at lunch but, my God, the vitriol and excitement this article unleashed is baffling. Can we please turn our attention to the multitude of serious, urgent challenges facing Israel and stop with the silly "let's analyze and criticize our friends because it makes us feel good" parlor game?
Interrsting comment. Fair enough. I think the larger point is that the people who are engaging in this practice need to look into themselves. They have a self-image of being pro-Israel and standing wiht Jews, but their actions betray this assumption. This is not a small thing. This is a fundamental misreading of what it means to be an ally. The “vitriol and excitement” the post gathered speaks, I think, to the relevance of the topic among our readers.
Being a Jewish liberal on Substack who supports Israel’s right not to march to its destruction without a fight means a choice between silence or a barrage of vicious personal attacks.
Thankful to Pat for continuing to take on anti-semitism, because I find it too exhausting and painful to do it on a regular basis.
But, of course, history has clearly demonstrated that Jews cannot rely on non-Jews to stand in front of, beside, or behind them. Thus, it would be incredibly stupid of Jews to believe they can rely on anyone but themselves.
That is such a sad, hopeless statement but past behaviour is the best predictor of future actions.
A girlfriend several years ago said Israel is on stolen land and even Jews (Jewish Voice for Peace) seem to agree with me. Unsurprisingly, our relationship soured quickly. Yet, I remained friends with her, while deciding to avoid the topic of Israel. A few months back, as I was sharing some facts on the war, initiated by her inquiry, I was met with the absurdity that Palestinians only want a piece of land they can call their own. If the solution were so easily resolved, I would still consider her a friend. I have finally resigned from any further attempts to question the inverted and sanctimonious coverage supplied by the NYT, NPR and Democracy Now that she digests uncritically.
If all that the Palestinian leadership wanted was a piece of land to call their own, they would have been living in a peaceful and stable country a long, long time ago.
It's such a disgusting and disingenuous argument. I hate Hamas, always have and always will. I do not need to preface that with anything.
It reminds me of Jew hating people who claim they aren't antisemites because their dentist is a Jew. A very low class form of antisemitism. I'd respect them a bit more (I'd still hate them) if they were more honest about their Jew hatred.
People are entitled to their opinion. They don't have to justify it. Likewise I'm entitled to tell them to fuck off to their face!
I would translate this phrase as: "We always support Israel when it is not under attack and does not need to defend itself. But when Israel is under attack and defends itself, we do not like to support it, because some of the hatred that the world feels for Israel will touch us." In other words, they can support Israel when it is doing well, but they do not want to when Israel is in trouble.
Thanks for this very important article. These people have never been supporters of Israel or the Jewish people and they are not "good people". Yes, they are dismayed that Jews can now fight back and win. Isn't it amazing how everything Israel does is looked at under a microscope, but other countries do unbelievably cruel and inhuman things and it just passes without comment; ie. Chinese persecuting Christians, Yughers, China taking over Tibet, Congo animals beheading Christians in church and on and on. Israel needs to be treated fairly by all.
I'd also like to ask these people about which other countries they have a firm opinion? Which ones do they "support" or not support? Have they always supported China? Greece? Burundi? I find it odd and telling just in the "I always supported Israel, but now I don't" when that's a not sentence that would even be uttered about any other of 194 countries in the world. They just ARE, we don't generally discuss or even think about if we support them or not.
But to your point about your former friends suddenly claiming to have an opinion, I suspect they're just making sure they check the correct "I'm a good person" box for their virtue signaling.
You are right AGAIN. Can you imagine someone declaring "I don't support Finland" or "I don't approve of Indonesia"? I should have made this case. May I steal your idea for future fodder?
Absolutely! I’d be honored. It continues to amaze me how little people see themselves or hear what they’re saying as they continue to obsess over Israel, a place they’ve never been and know nothing about in reality.
"I've always supported Israel, but..."
What they mean: "But now, all my trendy friends are screaming 'genocide', so I gotta go with them."
Pretty much. There's a lot of peer pressure and a lack of fortitude in these times.
At least now we know. I’ve lost friends, but apparently they weren’t truly friends.
To me it sounds like, I have Jewish friends, but…. Basically trying to shield themselves from being called antisemitic. Which of course they are.
It's a variant of "I can't be antisemitic because this As A Jew has said this totally antisemitic thing so it must be true and to believe it can't possibly be antisemitic because a Jew said it." Between that and "I used to be pro-Israel but now I can't possibly be," I've lost all my old friends going back several decades.
Oh I am so sorry this has happened to you. It’s one of the reasons I started looking on Substack for non-Jews who are sympathetic. Pat is more than sympathetic. He has thought about these issues so deeply that I am not only comforted by his extraordinary writing, but I gain a clearer and sharper view of many issues I had not even fully understood.
This makes everything I do wothwhile. Thank you Kathy.
Pat is a treasure. He’s doing sacred work.
This is what my mom keeps telling me!
💯. He’s an international mensch.
Well, I am in Rome at the moment, so ... (Todah Ruth)
Obama put the Progressive Seal of Approval on this disingenuous ploy when his parting gesture as president was the abstain from the usual American position on UN 2334, casting Jews as "occupiers" of JERUSALEM, ffs. That was one of those "the veil drops" moments for me. Now, I hear this all the time. It goes right back to 1967, as the brilliant 2nd gen feminist and fierce Zionist Phyllis Chesler describes. As soon as Israel was a victor in battle and gained some legitimate ground, right when the Soviet propaganda about "poor indigenous Palestinians" was being concocted to con Western left/liberals, David started being misrepresented as Goliath (see the great book by Joshua Muravchik on that development). Since antisemitism is always a punching down portrayed by its perpetrators as a punching up, Israel simply cannot defend itself, in these people's eyes, without being flipped easily into the "aggressor". It's vile.
You've nailed it.
I’ve lost a friend of 40 years over exactly this kind of discussion, Pat. I’m trying to keep a friendship of 40 years alive with another friend who delights in repeating misinformation about Israel. I’m trying to have some patience because she was widowed a year ago, and I know she needs desperately to fit in with her peers, who have poorly informed views. I’m trying to give her more time to have compassion for her insecurity after her loss and to see if we can continue a friendship that we started in college. My godson this morning sent me a text which said “the effort to cleanse Palestinians from greater Israel has caused immense human suffering.”
It rather sounds like you have a great deal more compassion than she does. It is kind of you to impute ignorance rathe rthan ill-will, which is a line I struggle to maintain.
Thank you for your compassion, which adds light to the world. These people are turning away from a great lie that cannot be rationalized: those who seek to destroy Israel play the victim and speak in the name of human rights the moment that their passionate pursuit of genocidal war fails.
Islamic deflectionism is what I call it
Coincides with Jew and Israel derangement syndrome
Sorry! My phone autocorrected me. Baccala or salt cod.
Be sure to get some baccalaureate at Filettaro a Santa Barbara near the Campo dei Fiori.
It's easier for people to adopt the broad strokes. One of my long term friends has it so backwards. She claims to just deeeeeply care about the Palestinian people, "and the Jews," do that's why it's alllll Netanyahu's fault.
I asked her if she knew Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 as part of a land for peace bid and she nearly shoved her fingers in her ears and said "We don't need to get lost in all the details to know right from wrong."
Makes me mad. The flippant considerations people try to toss out..."I've always supported Israel" is BS. Most people in Canada don't know much about this conflict.
Ah yes. Context is irrelevant. This is the defence of the critics. All they see are the TikTok memes and they have no concept of why this is happening. If we do not get to the root of the problem (Palestinian and Arab intransigence and, well, antisemitism) we will never resolve this conflict. If we start now, we might have peace in two generations. But we (they) have not begun that period of reconciliation.
I think you ard absolutely right about the ignorance of most Canadians regarding Israel's history and ongoing military struggles. Consequently, we do not have enough knowledge or information to develop a well-informed opinion about Mr. Netanyahu or Israeli military defence or offense. Unfortunately, ignorance seldom stops most people from forming or expressing an opinion.
Isn't it astonishing how armchair CNN potatoes in the West know better than IDF generals how this war should be conducted?
Point out that they are being Islamic deflectionists and await
You are such an astute observer of reality and of hypocrisy. The rhetorical trope that you have correctly identified exists because one cannot be openly antisemitic in polite society. In many ways, this is similar to people in Nazi Germany saying, I do not have anything personal against the Jews, but science has shown that Jewish blood is polluting the common good. These are people who want to enjoy the emotional benefits of antisemitism while wearing the mask of "objectivity."
"One cannot be openly antisemitic in polite society" .... for now. We need to hold the line on that one!
The world surely DOES prefer dead Jews to living ones.
--- They're so much easier to control.
Well, too bad for them.
THAT is the attitude we need to carry. Their opinions must be ignored and/or condemned.
Of all the very important issues facing Israel right now, trying to psychoanalyze why some people preface their criticism of Israel with a statement of previous support is...not even on the list. Equally concerning is the broad generalization that everyone who does this is antisemitic. I suppose this might make for a casual one or two minute conversation at lunch but, my God, the vitriol and excitement this article unleashed is baffling. Can we please turn our attention to the multitude of serious, urgent challenges facing Israel and stop with the silly "let's analyze and criticize our friends because it makes us feel good" parlor game?
Interrsting comment. Fair enough. I think the larger point is that the people who are engaging in this practice need to look into themselves. They have a self-image of being pro-Israel and standing wiht Jews, but their actions betray this assumption. This is not a small thing. This is a fundamental misreading of what it means to be an ally. The “vitriol and excitement” the post gathered speaks, I think, to the relevance of the topic among our readers.
Thank you Pat. This rings true for most of my former ‘friends’ at my Unitarian Universalist congregation in San Miguel de Allende.
Being a Jewish liberal on Substack who supports Israel’s right not to march to its destruction without a fight means a choice between silence or a barrage of vicious personal attacks.
Thankful to Pat for continuing to take on anti-semitism, because I find it too exhausting and painful to do it on a regular basis.
Thank you Ruth. This should not be the fight of Jews, but of non-Jews. But, of course ...
But, of course, history has clearly demonstrated that Jews cannot rely on non-Jews to stand in front of, beside, or behind them. Thus, it would be incredibly stupid of Jews to believe they can rely on anyone but themselves.
That is such a sad, hopeless statement but past behaviour is the best predictor of future actions.
A girlfriend several years ago said Israel is on stolen land and even Jews (Jewish Voice for Peace) seem to agree with me. Unsurprisingly, our relationship soured quickly. Yet, I remained friends with her, while deciding to avoid the topic of Israel. A few months back, as I was sharing some facts on the war, initiated by her inquiry, I was met with the absurdity that Palestinians only want a piece of land they can call their own. If the solution were so easily resolved, I would still consider her a friend. I have finally resigned from any further attempts to question the inverted and sanctimonious coverage supplied by the NYT, NPR and Democracy Now that she digests uncritically.
They see warmongers where peace activists exist and pacifists where terrorism blow up buses.
If all that the Palestinian leadership wanted was a piece of land to call their own, they would have been living in a peaceful and stable country a long, long time ago.
This is the absolute nut of the problem. It is complex, but it is not. You have nailed it in a single sentence.
I too have heard this from former 'friends'.
It's such a disgusting and disingenuous argument. I hate Hamas, always have and always will. I do not need to preface that with anything.
It reminds me of Jew hating people who claim they aren't antisemites because their dentist is a Jew. A very low class form of antisemitism. I'd respect them a bit more (I'd still hate them) if they were more honest about their Jew hatred.
People are entitled to their opinion. They don't have to justify it. Likewise I'm entitled to tell them to fuck off to their face!
https://leonupsidedown.blogspot.com/2022/10/80-of-world-does-not-like-us.html
Damn right!
I would translate this phrase as: "We always support Israel when it is not under attack and does not need to defend itself. But when Israel is under attack and defends itself, we do not like to support it, because some of the hatred that the world feels for Israel will touch us." In other words, they can support Israel when it is doing well, but they do not want to when Israel is in trouble.
Thanks for this very important article. These people have never been supporters of Israel or the Jewish people and they are not "good people". Yes, they are dismayed that Jews can now fight back and win. Isn't it amazing how everything Israel does is looked at under a microscope, but other countries do unbelievably cruel and inhuman things and it just passes without comment; ie. Chinese persecuting Christians, Yughers, China taking over Tibet, Congo animals beheading Christians in church and on and on. Israel needs to be treated fairly by all.
Yes. And good luck with that. No Jews no news.
Purim is soon. We need to publicly celebrate and promote that history too.
A cathartic celebration indeed